

Would you like to unlock the creative, imaginative and innovative potential in your team or organisation…BUT…don’t want to listen to another serious podcast which offers 7 steps, 5 habits, 3 mantras, and a hard sell in a pear tree?
Then join ‘The Occupational Philosophers’, a ‘not-so-serious’ podcast with Simon Banks (middle-aged Australian surfer man, artist and published author) and John Rice (middle-aged British man with a love of curiosity and philosophy) as they chat with a ‘clowder’ (great word!) of curious cats from the fields of Comedy, Academia, Philosophy, Neuroscience, Psychology, Design, Marketing, and Business, to explore how you, your team, and your organisation, can develop your curiosity, spark your creativity, and free your imagination, so you can grow your business and your people….sounds great huh?!
But don’t just take our word for it, read what our listeners think:
“Worth a listen, one of them has a strange Australian accent”
“They’re not philosophers, they’re idiots”
“If you like business, philosophy, humour, creativity, and imagination, then have a listen - if not, then I would leave well alone”
http://www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Episodes

Thursday Nov 16, 2023
Thursday Nov 16, 2023
In this short, sharp Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers discuss “What is Philosophy”, after a teenager asked Simon that very question and he struggled a little to answer! He set off to explore and their conversation together highlights just what he uncovered:
- How ChatGPT can help Philosophy sound cool to a 14-year old teenager
- Some definitions that help get to the essence of what Philosophy is all about
- Just how little John and Simon know….rock on Socrates…!
- The 7 main branches of Philosophy
- How Philosophy helps challenge beliefs, assumptions and ‘sacred cows’
- Philosophy promotes critical thinking and new lenses to view problems and opportunities
- How organisations can adopt philosophical thinking to improve creativity, collaboration and innovation
- The fact that Simon and John cannot pronounce ‘Epistemology’...
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
References:
https://www.philosophy-foundation.org/
https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2020/10/10/philosophy/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Warburton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Deleuze
Say Hello:
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs:
JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

Monday Nov 06, 2023
Ep 79 - Inbetweeners: Introducing The Parkers - A Radio Drama
Monday Nov 06, 2023
Monday Nov 06, 2023
In this short, sharp inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers introduce their latest experiment, a new Radio play, The Parkers!
Listen as Simon tries to convince John this is a good idea, before they lead you into the world of The Parkers with the first (and possibly last) episode.
Parkers is a family run, pet care business, based in Peterborough, UK - meet Beryl, a (previously) high flying marketing executive, and Craig, the gruff IT manager from Cornwall (or at least we think he's from Cornwall...it's difficult to tell by the actors performance), and hear them wrestle with work, life and gerbils...
Hope you enjoy the show!
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
Say Hello
- www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au

Thursday Oct 26, 2023
Ep.78 - Inbetweeners: High or low curiosity? What’s an NFC? Say what?
Thursday Oct 26, 2023
Thursday Oct 26, 2023
In this short-ish, sharp-ish inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers explore a test for curiosity called The need for cognition (NFC)
What is the NFC? It's a personality variable reflecting the extent to which individuals are inclined towards effortful cognitive activities (thanks Wikipedia)
Whilst it has originally come in a longer format, the one that The Occupational Philosophers explore has 18 questions/statements. (Cacioppo & Petty, 1984)
Some of these include:
- Thinking is not my idea of fun
- I only think as hard as I have to
- The idea of relying on thought to make my way to the top appeals to me..
They also explore:
- Some classic lines from Oscar Wilde's last gig at the Brixton Academy
- Empathic Curiosity - the desire to know others
Simon also felt happy he had discovered a big phrase -'Epistemic Curiosity'.
The Occupational Philosophers need to do some more exploration to provide a worthwhile link to this test. That will also be followed by links to Simon and John's scores.
Hope you enjoy the show!
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
Reading
- Read the 18 NFC Questions here https://centerofinquiry.org/uncategorized/need-for-cognition-scale-wabash-national-study/
- High NFC = lower ADI https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8759714/
- Other articles
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7545655/
- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326410291_The_Very_Efficient_Assessment_of_Need_for_Cognition_Developing_a_Six-Item_Version
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8759714/
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

Wednesday Oct 18, 2023
Wednesday Oct 18, 2023
In Episode 77, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Dr Marco Motta, who specialises in data analysis and visualisation, with a strong track record transforming the performance reporting culture of large organisations.
He marries this with a doctorate in philosophy from the University of Queensland and uses his background in critical thinking to help organisations and clients identify, define, break down and solve complex business challenges.
More importantly, he used to have a funk-rock band together with his brother in their teenage years, and they recently decided to record a cover of the Eurythmics classic, "Sweet Dreams," - we heartily recommend this…YouTube link below!
This is a great conversation with a guest who puts the Aristotle in Analytics!
In this episode, they explore, and scuttle down some real rabbit holes, on some mind-bending topics:
- How morality and ethics are culture dependent [12:00]
- What’s a slash chord?! (Listen to the first piano accompaniment on this podcast!) [17:50]
- What is truth? How do we know we exist? Should we put Descartes before the horse? [25:05]
- Is Gravity an absolute fact? Is it just a dip in Space-Time? Might John float out of his chair? [28:50]
- Is Schroedinger’s cat alive or dead? The answer was finally revealed! [35:39]
- How Philosophy usefully informs data analytics and visualisation [37:55]
- Why organisations that can manage uncertainty are better equipped to navigate the future [41:25]
- What are ‘weak truths’ and how do help us? [43:01]
- How does creativity and painting play into data visualisation? [48:01]
- Will our robot overlords vaporise us? [54:00]
- What advice does Marco have for teams and organisations? [1:05:17]
- When is the ‘Occupational Philosophers After Dark’ podcast launching?
And as always, they expand Marco’s thinking with their very own ‘Thought Experiments’; this episode they have:
- Busting Urban Myths
Learn more about Marco
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mottamarco01/
https://www.mottaconsulting.com.au
References
https://theamazingthundercat.com/
What if Red Hot Chilli Peppers played Sweet Dreams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id9PvdbYUGA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Vattimo
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

Wednesday Oct 11, 2023
Ep.76 - Inbetweeners - How the light gets in
Wednesday Oct 11, 2023
Wednesday Oct 11, 2023
In this short, sharp Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers discuss what John discovered when he attended the recent ‘How the Light Gets In’ festival in London; a curly mash up of philosophy, music and comedy:
- What were the big themes being explored this year? [02:30]
- What is the golden rule to live by? [04:10}
- What 3 things did John learn from sitting with fellow chin-stroking, bat milk latte drinking, roll-neck sweater wearing explorers? [05:40]
- What are takeaways for us as individuals, teams and leaders of organisations? [09:20]
- How does the light get in?
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
Say Hello
- www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au

Thursday Oct 05, 2023
Thursday Oct 05, 2023
In episode 75, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Design Guru, Chi Ryan.
Chi is a designer, writer, researcher, learner, educator and all-round creative polymath. She is obsessed with design that puts experience first
She helped everyone from hungry startups to global giants transform through design and has led, taught and been part of teams designing digital and physical products, services, brands, events, physical spaces, processes, values, systems, learning experiences, rituals, models, methods and almost everything in between.
She has led cross-functional research, design and innovation practices (Fjord/Accenture Song, Idean/Frog/Capgemini Alumni) around the world (from London to Milan and Hong Kong to New York.
Chi is currently a higher-degree by research candidate at Torrens University where my practice-based research focuses on exploring the nexus of design, post-humanism, economics, ethics and philosophy through the lens of radical design theory. She is also Adjunct Faculty at RMIT University in Melbourne
In this episode, they explore:
- What is design and why does great design matter?
- What’s behind the groundbreaking talk of “Dude, where’s my creativity?”
- What is post-design? (Get ready for the best answer ever)
- Why you will never look at an LA bus stop in the same way
- Why absurdity, provocativity, spectacle, nostalgia and mythology need to be in the conversation of great design
- Why Derida was a polarising philosopher
- Why all leaders should smile a little more
As always, there are some great thought experiments. This time they explore the minds of French Philosophers through the thought experiment of Blankety Blanc…
There is so much insane depth and insight and Chi is a very funny guest so The Occupational Philosophers hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it.
More about Chi

Thursday Sep 21, 2023
Ep.74 - Inbetweeners - Sweet dreams are made of this
Thursday Sep 21, 2023
Thursday Sep 21, 2023
In this short, sharp inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers explore dreams and how they reveal the wild jungle of our mind!
We have all had those bizarre dreams which connect random and seemingly disparate ideas; the koala surfing on a water buffalo, or a man made of cheese trying to sell you a time share apartment in Benidorm….or is that just us?
Listen as we discuss:
- What can various research studies tell us about dreams and their link to creativity?
- What is happening when we sink into REM state…the peak dream state?
- How even the most bizarre dreams seem to follow a story
- What did artists do to help them harness the power of their dreams?
- How can we as individuals and teams use these insights to improve the level of creative thought in our organisations?
- Just what do John and Simon dream about?
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
Show Notes
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/questions/why-are-we-so-creative-our-dreams
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-how-to-use-dreams-for-creative-inspiration
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs:
JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
In Episode 73, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Professor Sophie Scott, who is the Director of the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, University College London and a Fellow of the British Academy.
Sophie is an expert in cognitive neuroscience studying human vocal communication, from speech and sound to social interactions and nonverbal emotional expressions, and has become very well known for her work on laughter.
As a pioneering researcher in the science of laughter, she’s made some unexpected discoveries -- including my favourite, that rats are ticklish, and that the one tactic that’s almost guaranteed to get someone to laugh is to show them someone else laughing.
She has appeared on UK TV many times, including The One Show (BBC1), Sunday Brunch (C4), Horizon (BBC2) - AND has presented the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures. She also represented the Polytechnic of Central London in University Challenge (BBC2).
In podcasting she co-hosts The Neuromantics (Great pun!), and is a series regular on the wonderful Infinite Monkey Cage.
She is an accomplished public speaker, her TED talks have amassed millions of views online, and she has presented at the World Economic Forum, The Royal Institute, and the Wired UK conference. She has performed science-based stand-up comedy and has appeared at the Hammersmith Apollo, the Bloomsbury Theatre and the Latitude Festival.
And to top it off, also an author or many books!
In this episode, they explore:
- How laughter is contagious and social
- What words are genuinely funny…’Flank’ is one…!
- Why brains are so fascinating these days
- How laughter is the ‘gateway drug’ to play
- What happens in the brain when we are creative
- Why organisations need to build social spaces where laughter can live
- Who is Brian Helverston?
And in this episode, they are lucky enough to have their listener’s questions to share with Sophie.
Learn more about Sophie
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Scott
- https://www.ted.com/talks/sophie_scott_why_we_laugh
- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brain-Things-You-Should-Know-ebook/dp/B09RF221H8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
References

Thursday Aug 17, 2023
Ep.72 - Is it just Dumb Luck? (or how to cultivate moments of Serendipity)
Thursday Aug 17, 2023
Thursday Aug 17, 2023
In this short-ish Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers dive into and muse on the idea of Serendipity. Between them they explore:
- Actually, what is Serendipity? (you will have to listen)
- Why dumb luck isn't a thing - despite that person always getting a job they don't deserve or are qualified for
- The danger of trying to manifest middle-class moments
- Why it's essential to be open to the world around us - as chance encounters are everywhere
- How our biases rationalise chance encounters to pretend they didn't happen
- Why curiosity is at the heart of moments of serendipity
- How being a super explorer can create moments of serendipity
- How the discovery of Penicillin is considered a triumph of serendipity
- The power of a watermelon, an earbud and a jelly bean in the right hands
- And finally, how the unlucky butcher can be a metaphor for us all
The Occupational Philosophers hope you enjoy the show!
Links:
The Serendipity Mindset: The art and science of good luck
FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a little kickstart to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process.
Take the Innovation Scorecard! https://empoweringinnovation.scoreapp.com/
Take the creativity & innovation to the next level
Answer 25 questions and we’ll send you a personalised report to benchmark the level of creativity and innovation in your organisation
- It just takes a few minutes takes just a few minutes
- It’s completely free
- Receive customised results instantly
- It takes just few minutes to complete
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

Wednesday Aug 02, 2023
Wednesday Aug 02, 2023
In this guest episode, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Dr Louise Mahler.
Dr Louise is the polymath's polymath and is recognised as a Top 30 Global Guru in both Body Language and Communication.
She was an Opera singer for 10 years with the Vienna State Opera.
Louise’s qualifications include B.Econ; B. Mus; Post Grad Dip Music; L.Mus.A; Master of Applied Science in Organisational Change and a Master Practitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
She has completed an award-winning PhD around the unsung wisdom of the mind-body-voice connection she named Vocal Intelligence.
She is a sought-after commentator discussing leadership, body language and effective presentation on television, radio and in the media. Her recent interviews with Channel 7 where she analyses the body language of Harry and Meghan Sussex have over 2 million views.
Louise's clients include Fortune 500 clients around the globe.
Louise was voted Keynotes Speaker of the Year in 2021 by the Professional Speakers Association and is the author of "Resonate: for people who need to be heard"
She is the virtuoso of the voice, the high priestess of hot air and the femme fatale of unfailing attraction.
In this episode we explore:
- The importance of breathing out (not just in)
- Why we all need to channel ancient Rome and have way more Grrrrrrrravitas
- Why communication should not just be a linear give and receive
- Why we need to stop making excuses for communication (including being left-handed)
- How we need to embrace Move, Move, Move
- How wit and levity are wingmen for all types of communication
- Why it's important to be an active listener, not just a passive listener
- The importance of saying ‘yes, please!’ more often
More about Louise
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg
Take the Innovation Scorecard!
https://empoweringinnovation.scoreapp.com/
Take creativity & innovation to the next level
Answer 25 questions and we’ll send you a personalised report to benchmark the level of creativity and innovation in your organisation
- It just takes a few minutes takes just a few minutes
- It’s completely free
- Receive customised results instantly