Would you like to unlock the creative, imaginative and innovative potential in your team or organisation…BUT…don’t want to listen to another serious podcast which offers 7 steps, 5 habits, 3 mantras, and a hard sell in a pear tree?
Then join ‘The Occupational Philosophers’, a ‘not-so-serious’ podcast with Simon Banks (middle-aged Australian surfer man, artist and published author) and John Rice (middle-aged British man with a love of curiosity and philosophy) as they chat with a ‘clowder’ (great word!) of curious cats from the fields of Comedy, Academia, Philosophy, Neuroscience, Psychology, Design, Marketing, and Business, to explore how you, your team, and your organisation, can develop your curiosity, spark your creativity, and free your imagination, so you can grow your business and your people….sounds great huh?!
But don’t just take our word for it, read what our listeners think:
“Worth a listen, one of them has a strange Australian accent”
“They’re not philosophers, they’re idiots”
“If you like business, philosophy, humour, creativity, and imagination, then have a listen - if not, then I would leave well alone”
http://www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Episodes
Wednesday Mar 18, 2026
Wednesday Mar 18, 2026
In this episode 113, the Occupational Philosophers chat with the wonderfully curious Professor Katherine Boydell.
Katherine is an internationally recognised leader in qualitative inquiry and arts-based knowledge translation in mental health and social care with innovative approaches to create knowledge and translate empirical research using arts-based methods, including art installations.
She is the founder and head of the award-winning Arts-based Knowledge Translation Lab at Black Dog Institute and Director, Knowledge Translation, Maridulu Budyari Gumal – Sydney Partnership for Health Education Research and Enterprise.
She was appointed as a Fellow of the prestigious Australian Academy of Social Sciences in 2020.
She is Vice-President of the Arts & Health Network of NSW/ACT and is Executive Editor of the Arts & Health journal and Associate Editor of Early Intervention in Psychiatry.
She has been a Visiting Professor at the University of Wollongong, University of Sydney, Rotterdam Arts & Science Lab, Radboud University, and Singapore Art Museum.
She has published over 300 peer-reviewed journal articles, book chapters and books as well as other arts-based outputs such as research-based installations and exhibits and two PhDs.
Her recent book, Applying Body Mapping in Research: An Arts-Based Method, brings together years of practice using this powerful participatory technique across health and social care settings around the world.
This is some impressive stuff!
In this episode, they explore a wide range of topics including:
- What sparked Katherine's passion for arts-based research
- The Salon des Refusés: The alternative Archibald Prize exhibition
- Abstract painting, layering, and what lies underneath
- Five grandsons and the joy of childlike curiosity
- What actually counts as evidence in research?
- How Katherine's lab uses art to create AND share knowledge
- ReBloom: An interactive digital installation about self-harm, hope and human connection
- Body mapping: tracing, filling, and telling stories through the body
- Taking research-based art into shopping centres and office lobbies with Dexus
- The Think, Feel, Do framework for measuring impact
- Deep looking and why we need more of it
- Arts on prescription and the therapeutic consequences of engaging with art
- Why the funding still hasn't caught up with the evidence
Chapters
- 0:00 Opening quote: Embrace Messiness
- 0:26 Intro & Guest Introduction
- 0:44 Introducing Professor Katherine Boydell
- 3:03 Curious Eye: The Salon des Refusés
- 5:05 Dinner Party Round
- 13:15 Arts-Based Research: What Katherine Does
- 17:37 ReBloom: Arts & Self-Harm Research
- 29:48 Body Mapping Explained
- 36:59 Dexus Partnership & Public Installations
- 43:23 Wrap-Up & Rapid Fire Questions
- 48:59 Post-Show Reflections
John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse!
Learn more about Catherine
- Black Dog Institute
https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/ - Arts-Based Knowledge Translation Lab (overview page)
https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/research/ - Sydney Partnership for Health Education Research and Enterprise (SPHERE)
https://www.thesphere.com.au/ - Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-boydell-87b3867/
- Arts and Health Journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/rahe20
- Rebloom Project https://www.uts.edu.au/news/2025/10/rebloom-how-an-art-installation-is-changing-conversations-about-self-harm
Mentions
- Archibald Prize
https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/prizes/archibald/ - Salon des Refusés
https://www.salonrefuses.com.au/ - Art Gallery of New South Wales
https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/ - Daisy Fancourt
The Art Cure
https://www.penguin.com.au/books/art-cure-9781529935547https://www.penguin.co.uk/ - World Health Organisation – What is the evidence on the role of the arts in improving health and well-being? A scoping review
https://www.who.int/europe/publications/i/item/9789289054553 - Arts & Health Journal
https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rahe20/current - Early Intervention in Psychiatry
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/17517893
Say Hello to the OP
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
- JOHN Bowland Consulting
- SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL
Tuesday Feb 03, 2026
Tuesday Feb 03, 2026
In this episode 113, the Occupational Philosophers chat with the wonderfully curious David Bramwell - a writer, broadcaster, performer and professional seeker.
He’s the author of The Number 9 Bus to Utopia, a philosophical travel memoir, in which he went looking for different and potentially better ways of living.
He’s presented many programmes for BBC Radio 3 and BBC Radio 4 on subjects ranging from Ivor Cutler, Ken Campbell and time travel, to the art of public speaking.
As a podcaster, he produces and presents Adventures in Nutopia and The Ways of Water, and has co-hosted other popular podcasts including, Odditorium, Watling Street with author John Higgs, and Seeker! The Ken Campbell Podcast with Daisy Campbell.
In 2020 his book The Cult of Water was published, exploring belief and rituals, and then in 2023 he self-published The Singalong-A-Wicker-Man Scrapbook.
Since 2004 he has been hosting Brighton’s Catalyst Club, a monthly salon at which three guest speakers from all walks of life take to the stage to talk about their passions.
As a performer, he has toured several solo shows and performed at Soho Theatre, Somerset House, Tate St Ives, TEDx, Idler Academy, MOMA, UK festivals, and the Lowry Theatre.
And finally there's Oddfellow's Casino, an eclectic band project that blends spoken word, music and storytelling, and who are approaching their 25th anniversary this year.
In this episode they explore a wide range of topic including:
- How to use Brexit to dodge home DIY and tasks
- The Singalong-a-Wicker-Man show!
- Panpsychism and consciousness (Does Broccoli dream of sheep?)
- How do tomatoes feel about being eaten? Are tomatoes controlling us?
- What sparked David’s curiosity superpower?
- What fashion items are best for a philosophical data analyst?
- What lessons David learned on ‘The Number 9 Bus to Utopia’
- How alternative communities show great creativity and imagination
- What the everyday interests of everyday people can tell us about curiosity and being human
- How we might engage better with people who have different views to ourselves
- What is the official name for a ‘Bum Reader’?
And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s:
- Where is this bus going?
Learn more about David
https://oddfellowscasino.bandcamp.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/adventures-in-nutopia/id1649333497
References
Trevor Noah
Australian Writers Festival boycott
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4jkwz2z8
The Wicker Man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wicker_Man
Crows picking up cigarette butts
https://stevedalepetworld.com/blog/something-to-crow-about/
Panpsychism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panpsychism
Philip Goff
https://philipgoffphilosophy.com/
Museum of Curiosity
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3wvk
Spalding Gray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_Gray
Rudolph Steiner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner
Underground Temple
Shark House
https://museumofoxford.org/bill-heine-the-man-behind-the-headington-shark/
Findhorn
The Min Min Light
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/27/what-are-glowing-orbs-of-light-in-the-sky-world-over
The Positive Revolution
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Handbook-Positive-Revolution-Edward-Bono/dp/0670830127
La Bete
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14407336/
November
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6164502/
The Web of Meaning
https://www.jeremylent.com/the-web-of-meaning.html
John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. Its the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse!
Say Hello to the OP
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
JOHN Bowland Consulting
SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL
Wednesday Jan 07, 2026
Wednesday Jan 07, 2026
In Episode 112, The Occupational Philosophers chat with the artists, Catherine Borowski and Lee Baker, two exceptionally talented guests who show the true power of creative collaboration and imagination.
Together they have brought to life the SKIP Gallery; an international, collaborative, multi-disciplinary public art project dedicated to creating much-needed space, opportunities, funding and advocacy for emerging artists. The original idea was to forge opportunities for artistic interventions in unexpected places by repurposing rubbish skips.
In addition, they are also the founders of Graphic Rewilding, another large-scale public art project/s creating vast, flower inspired, attention grabbing, positivity inducing artworks and immersive environments in often-overlooked and under-appreciated urban spaces
And finally, PRODUCE UK provides a wide range of services for experiential event and placemaking clients; they have amassed an impressive portfolio of experience, working with such clients as Lumiere Light Festival, London Festival of Architecture, Cartoon Network, London Festival Week, Hem, Vanity Fair, Nike, Adidas and Discovery Channel.
In this episode, they explore:
- Public art, everyday objects and filling a skip
- Bringing nature into urban landscapes
- How jarring your thinking can lead to greater levels of creativity
- Madonna’s spiritual practice as a source of success
- Enjoying the process of making art
- Why being bored could be the greatest gift to curiosity and creativity
- How distraction is the thief of creativity
- What good collaboration looks like - it’s not all smooth sailing…
- The beauty and psychological benefits of graphic rewilding
- How communities are enhanced through public art
And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s:
- Skip or Big Bin?
Learn more about Catherine and Lee
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-borowski-7b531b8/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-baker-ba2815145/
- https://www.graphicrewilding.com/
- https://www.produceuk.com/
- https://www.instagram.com/catherine.borowski/
- https://www.tiktok.com/@graphic_rewilding/video/7507316102276517142
References
- https://www.linkedin.com/posts/danielpink_this-one-image-can-make-you-more-creative-activity-7385767635411718144-Njqb/
- https://veganfta.com/articles/2025/10/23/the-milking-herd-parades-through-london-to-protest-against-dairy/
- https://www.michaeljohansson.com/
- https://www.melrobbins.com/episode/episode-324/
- https://www.merlinsheldrake.com/entangled-life
- https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/madonna-jay-shetty-podcast-spiritualism-kabbalah-b2835518.html
- https://hbr.org/2025/08/you-need-to-be-bored-heres-why
John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. Its the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse!
Say Hello to the OP
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
JOHN Bowland Consulting
SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL
Friday Sep 26, 2025
Friday Sep 26, 2025
Episode 111 Cristy Burne: Scientist, Author, Creator, Storyteller
Author, science communicator and adventure-loving human Cristy Burne joins The Occupational Philosophers to explore creativity, play, curiosity and the joy of living boldly.
In this episode, John and Simon chat with award-winning author and science communicator Cristy Burne. With 23 books under her belt, a stint at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider, and a mission to ignite curiosity in kids and adults alike, Cristy brings her signature mix of energy, humour and insight. The conversation goes everywhere from how to spark creativity in everyday life, to why we all need to play more and embrace the chaos of being human. Also, there’s a leech-in-your-eyeball story. Of course there is.
In this episode, they chat about
-
Why fun and play are the gateway drugs to creativity and curiosity
-
The role of adults in showing kids that growing up can be joyful
-
How to find creativity in the corners and gaps of your day
-
Why perfection is the enemy of progress (especially when dancing)
-
How to reframe drudgery by reconnecting with your higher purpose
-
Giving yourself permission to try, fail, and keep going
-
The Large Padron Collider, Bonbon Collider and other very real science experiments
-
Why Cristy recommends you don’t visit crustybum.com
Along the way, they cover Bluey, book week, Barack Obama’s suits, marshmallow metaphors, AI bosses, and the very underrated joy of sitting in dirt.
About Cristy Burne
Cristy is a science writer, presenter, former patent translator and a STEM ambassador who has worked with astronauts, Nobel Prize winners and yes, a surprising number of chefs. She’s passionate about science communication, joy, adventure, and bringing stories to life. Her work includes everything from graphic novels to science thrillers, and she recently launched a creative stage show with Trudy Boatwright for World Expo in Japan.
Find Cristy Burne at
cristyburne.com
Cristy on Goodreads
Cristy on Instagram
Mentions and references
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
JOHN Bowland Consulting
SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL
Tuesday Aug 12, 2025
Tuesday Aug 12, 2025
Ep. 110:
Have you noticed how almost anything can now be turned into a LinkedIn Business lesson?
The Occupational Philosophers sure have and decided to explore this phenomenon, and in the process created a template for anyone to do this (and turn your own mundane life experiences into LinkedIn GOLD)
The template is as follows:
- Something happens...
- Which made me think...
- Insight:
- Question?
Once you start, it's so easy to turn every day, mundane experiences into LinkedIn lessons and importantly, you will never be short of inspiration for business wisdom again, well on your way to thought leadership.
John and Simon truly enjoyed making this show and they hope you can now mine your everyday life for business metaphors, to be shared 3 x week on LinkedIn.
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
JOHN Bowland Consulting
SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL
Friday Jul 04, 2025
Friday Jul 04, 2025
In Episode 109, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Eric Weiner, an award-winning journalist, a New York Times bestselling author, and much sought-after keynote speaker on a variety of topics, including happiness, innovation strategies and the "power of place." He regularly leads writing workshops around the world.
He is a former foreign correspondent for NPR and reporter for The New York Times. He's reported from more than 30 nations, from Iraq to Indonesia, covering some of the major international events of recent times. He is the recipient of several journalism awards, including the Angel Award for coverage of Islamic affairs in Asia.
His work has appeared in The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Atlantic, National Geographic, AFAR, among other publications.
And his books include The Geography of Bliss, The Geography of Genius, Man Seeks God and The Socrates Express. His latest book, Ben & Me, has recently been published this year.
In this episode, they explore:
- What colour is Tuesday?
- The philosophy of place
- How many bags Eric has….and whether he has a collection or an obsession
- Narrative truth vs factual truth
- Moving between being a journalist and being a writer
- How creative genius springs from place and environment
- Why openness to experience is at the root of creativity
- What Benjamin Franklin can teach us about curiosity, creativity, imagination and play
- How rituals can help focus your creative energy
- Creating a ‘sandbox’ to experiment in
- The meaning of life….purpose and gritty bits…
And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s:
- Your place or mind?
Learn more about Eric
http://www.ericweinerbooks.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-weiner-17aa8639/
References
https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/exhibition/michelangelo-leonardo-raphael
https://www.independentthinking.co.uk/speakers/ian-gilbert/
https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/133768-one-s-destination-is-never-a-place-but-a-new-way
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
Monday Jun 09, 2025
Monday Jun 09, 2025
Ep.108 Rick Rubin and the Creative Act
John and Simon explore the creative wisdom of music producer Rick Rubin and what it means to bring creativity into everyday work and life
What does it really mean to be creative? In this Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers explore the insights of legendary music producer Rick Rubin, whose work spans from the Beastie Boys to Adele. Drawing on his book The Creative Act: A Way of Being, John and Simon unpack practical ways anyone can bring more creativity, curiosity and openness into their life and work.
In this episode, Simon and John chat about
- Why creativity is not a job title or output, but a way of being
- The artist as a vessel, and how great ideas often come from creating the space for them to arrive
- Detaching from outcomes and letting the creative process unfold
- Why constraints and rituals are powerful tools to spark creativity
- Why originality is overrated. Everything is a remix
- Sensitivity as a superpower. How tuning in helps you see what others miss
Along the way, they cover Sistine Chapel replicas, rugby league fandom, urban sketching, and how sensitivity and curiosity are deeply linked.
Links and references
- The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
- English Sistine Chapel Replica Goring
- Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert
- The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs
JOHN Bowland Consulting
SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au
SIMON SHOWREEL
Tuesday May 13, 2025
Tuesday May 13, 2025
In episode 107, The Occupational Philosophers chat with the highly curious Dr Jochen Schweitzer, a strategy, innovation, and entrepreneurship researcher and education leader at UTS, Director of the Executive MBA, advisor, and author.
His research, teaching and consulting focus on issues of strategy, collaboration, entrepreneurship and innovation with a special interest in design thinking, emerging technologies and open innovation.
Jochen was a visiting Scholar at Stanford University and Hasso Plattner Institute (HPI) School of Design Thinking at Potsdam University. Before joining the UTS Business School, he taught at the UTS schools of Design and Architecture and Macquarie University. Jochen is a passionate educator who has taught at universities in the UK, Japan, China, the US, Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand and won numerous awards, too many to mention.
He was a principal at PricewaterhouseCoopers, a production engineer at Volkswagen and a program manager at the Goethe Institute. Jochen is also the founder of U.lab, an interdisciplinary think tank and platform for innovation projects.
Apart from his academic pursuits, Jochen is an active member of the entrepreneurship community and has mentored and advised numerous startups.
Interesting titles from co-authored papers
- A Very Short, Fairly Interesting and Reasonably Cheap Book About Studying Strategy
- Herding cats to co-create cross-university courses in record time
- Avoid being the Turkey: How big data analytics changes the game of strategy in times of ambiguity and uncertainty
So a very interesting guest!!
In this episode, the Occupational Philosophers explore:
- The five key attributes for an entrepreneurial mindset and behaviours
- How entrepreneurialism comes from 'doing it'
- The importance of building your own startup
- How Stoicism is a key part of entrepreneurialism
- What 90% of startups that failed haven't found
- The challenge of implementing design and design thinking in organisations
- If you want to solve a problem, start with what pisses you off
- Failing that, ask “what do you desire and what makes you itch?”
- Find your tribe, find your network, maintain it
- Why boards need to embrace curiosity and look around the corner
- What is Design Thinking?
As always, there is a thought experiment to stretch the mind. In this episode, it's Ferret or Fantasy? The start-up world animal kingdom.
There are also some listener questions, which are always a treat.
The Occupational Philosophers hope you enjoy listening to the show as much as they did making it.
Jochen Links
- Linktree (all links): https://linktr.ee/jochenschweitzer
- UTS Academic Profile: https://profiles.uts.edu.au/jochen.schweitzer
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochenschweitzer
- Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=3aWHIb4AAAAJ
- ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jochen-Schweitzer
- ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0003-1807-6720
- Academia.edu: https://uts-academia.academia.edu/JochenSchweitzer
- Personal/Project Website: https://besyd.com
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs:
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg
Wednesday Apr 09, 2025
Wednesday Apr 09, 2025
Hello and welcome back to 2025! (Noting the irony that is is now April...)
The Occupational Philosophers have returned from walking the Earth, exploring the heavens and astral travelling beyond the stratosphere - metaphorically and literally. Feeling refreshed, joyous and 1.27% more wise, they are excited for the new season of the show.
This episode combines the loves of both John and Simon: Great questions and raucous dinner parties.
As it's a new season, John and Simon explored a bunch of new dinner party questions that move beyond the usual, "What do you do?" (SNORE....)
These include:
- Is there a habit or ritual in your day that feels somewhat sacred and you don’t like to miss?
- You're putting together a diverse team you would love to work with. Who might they be and why?
- What’s something you’ve recently started looking at differently?
- What’s a question you wish people asked you more often?
- When do you feel most intellectually alive?
It's a curious discussion to kick off a most curious new season for a show that's a lot about curiosity.
Simon and John hope you enjoy the show.
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs:
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg
Sunday Jan 05, 2025
Sunday Jan 05, 2025
Reflecting on the year of 2024 seemed like such a good idea. That's the thing right?
Launching that episode as quickly as planned didn't go as well as planned....
Drinking their own Kool-Aid and embracing serendipity, mistakes and experimentation The Occupational Philosophers still hit launch and took on the gift of a slightly delayed episode like a gift from the Norse Gods.
In this episode the deep themes of:
- Are bananas and tape art? If not, who said so?
- Brain Rot (very festive)
The Occupational Philosophers wish you all the best for 2025 whilst they take a short break. Simon's vanity will be in full forward as he desperately tries to lose some weight for summer beach vibes and John will be sadly staring out the window looking at a grey, drab British day and looking forward to June when the sun comes out
They both look forward to catching up in mid Feb when back on deck - ahoy 2025!
Say Hello
www.occupationalphilosophers.com
Their day jobs:
- JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/
- SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au
- SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg